乳癌雙標靶治療-HER2型乳癌的春天
「你又話HER2型乳癌標靶治療得一隻Herceptin,但我見隔離位病友用緊乳癌雙標靶治療,究竟我又啱唔啱洗?」原來HER2型乳癌已經悄悄迎來治療的春天⋯⋯
HER2型乳癌
好似現實社會所有野咁,喺未講你選擇什麼之前,係要先講你有冇資格選擇。就好似港台節目「我係乜乜乜?」咁,你係乜乜乜先?你咩package先?
圖片來源:香港電台節目<我係乜乜乜>截圖
呢篇文章嘅主要對象係HER2型侵蝕性乳癌病友,如果你係HER2型呢個package,請你繼續睇落去。如果你唔係HER2型,咁可以慳返D時間唔洗睇。
「我點知我嘅乳癌係咪HER2型?」
方法有2個:
1)問醫生
2)自己check一check病理報告
「點樣check病理報告?」
搵出以下幾個重點:
1)要係侵蝕性癌(invasive cancer)。原位癌係冇分HER2唔HER2型嘅。
2)HER2陽性(HER2+):一係cerbB2 score 3,一係cerbB2 score2 +FISH positive。
「我係HER2型呀,請講落去⋯⋯」
乳癌標靶藥Herceptin
唔知你仲記唔記得好耐之前我講過,乳癌標靶藥物一線只得一隻,就係叫Herceptin。佢要同化療一齊用先發揮出最大威力,傳統Herceptin加化療嘅組合有三個:
1)TTCH
2)ACTH
3)ACPH
喺2015年12月舉行的乳癌世界大會San Antonio Breast Cancer Symposium之中,發表咗一個重磅研究BCIRG 006嘅10年跟進結果。發現打TTCH同ACTH嘅治療效果一樣,不過TTCH嘅心臟副作用就少好多。可以預期從此以後,TTCH將會一統江湖成為首選,冇咩人會再打ACTH/ACPH。
重點一:TTCH係化療加單標靶的基礎。
「有單即係有雙啦,咁咩係雙標靶?」
聰明。人總係貪心的,得一自然想二。一隻標靶藥得,自然醫生想雙管齊下,希望可以發展出第二隻標靶藥去加強乳癌控制。
「咁第二隻標靶藥係乜?」
以前好多精力放咗係一隻口服標靶藥Lapatinib度,希望可以Herceptin加Lapatinib,不過副作用太多,始終影響咗佢喺乳癌治療上的定位。就係呢個苦無吋進嘅時候,另一隻明星標靶藥已經悄悄地空横出世,佢就係今集嘅主角-Pertuzumab(Perjeta)。
乳癌標靶藥Pertuzumab
「Pertuzumab係咩黎㗎呢?」
佢係一隻吊針標靶藥,2012年美國推出市面,2014年引入香港,詳細藥理可以去乳癌類型巡禮 - 與你細數HER2型乳癌的歴史睇睇,重點只要知原來佢加埋Herceptin效果非常好。
「有咩副作用?」
同Herceptin一樣,都係有可能會傷心臟,所以治療中要定期檢查住心臟。
另外會多D肚屙,同埋白血球過低而發燒(febrile neutropenia)。
仲有一個現實D嘅副作用就係傷荷包,因為隻藥新加靚,你都估到藥廠唔會平比你。
「咁有幾貴?」
Pertuzumab 一針420mg 成本價要$27000,頭一次要打兩針(840mg)之後三星期一針。假設先打最基本六個週期,總共七針藥$27000 x 7 = $189000,以上未計私家收費(政府當然唔洗收),同理Herceptin條數。如果係擴散無限打雙標靶,條數係好襟計。
「嘩,好鬼貴,有冇得申請資助?」
冇。因為隻藥好新,暫時未有任何一個資助計劃涵括Pertuzumab。不過如果你係公務員或者醫管局員工,可以申請免費。
2018年好消息:Pertuzumab已經納入撒瑪利亞基金名單,第四期乳癌第一線用佢加標靶Herceptin加化療Docetaxel,可以申請資助。以後唔洗怕冇錢冇得醫,有靚藥但用唔起(成幾十萬)。
乳癌雙標靶治療
「咁幾時用?如果真係好,錢都要自己諗辦法⋯⋯」
因為隻藥好新,佢係乳癌治療上的定位醫生仲摸索緊。呢一刻(2016年2月),美國FDA開咗綠燈的情況有兩個:
1)第四期乳癌
2)術前化療加雙標靶
第四期乳癌
因為成效顯著,Docetaxel-Herceptin-Pertuzumab已經成為初次確診(即係之前從未用過任何標靶藥/化療藥)第四期HER2型乳癌的首選。
「有幾好先?」
原來加埋Pertuzumab落去Docetaxel-Herceptin度,可以令原來存活中位數(median overall survival)由40.8個月,增加去到56.5個月。條命足足長咗成15.7個月,即係成年有多,呢個係一個好驚人的數字,唔怪得藥廠收咁貴。
圖片來源:Genentech
「咁實際點樣打法?」
化療加雙標靶每三星期打一針,總共打六針(化療因應個別情況有可能增加),之後淨雙標靶每三星期一針(無限打),直至身體頂唔順/荷包頂唔順/乳癌細胞不再受控制為止。
「無限打,咁條數點計?」
都幾襟計。假設喺政府醫院打(即係已經最平啦),化療Docetaxel唔洗錢,Herceptin要睇下申唔申請到資助(由全資助到全自費不等),Herceptin一年大概$300000,Pertuzumab打半年要用$243000($27000×9),打一年要$486000($27000×18)。之後繼續打繼續計⋯⋯
2016年7月更新:HER2型第四期乳癌病友好消息,Pertuzumab 嘅母廠提供優惠,如果擴散第一線打雙標靶(Pertuzumab + Herceptin),頭兩年公立病人只需比Pertuzumab錢,藥廠送Herceptin,可以慳咗成60萬。另外如果有幸繼續打落去,2年過外兩隻都免費,真係病人之福。
2018年好消息:Pertuzumab已經納入撒瑪利亞基金名單,第四期乳癌第一線用佢加標靶Herceptin加化療Docetaxel,可以申請資助。以後唔洗怕冇錢冇得醫,有靚藥但用唔起(成幾十萬)。
2018年1月更新:最近發現羅氏大藥廠整咗個幾全面嘅乳癌教育網頁,http://her2morrow.com.hk,有興趣嘅朋友可以去睇下。
術前化療加雙標靶
另外一個開綠燈的用途就係要打術前化療加標靶的病友。
「有幾好先?」
暫時知道加埋Pertuzumab落去術前化療標靶度,可以令手術時乳癌全消失(pathological complete response, pCR)嘅機會率大概增加約一倍。至於命仔係咪長D,暫時都未有數據去肯定/否定。
「咁實際點樣打法?」
上面提過化療加單標靶主力係TTCH,今次我地就加埋Pertuzumab落去,變成TTCHP。化療加雙標靶每三星期打一針,總共打六針,之後做手術,手術後淨單標靶Herceptin每三星期一針,直至打足一年Herceptin為止(即係總共17至18針,或者可以睇成手術後打11至12針)。
「呢次條數又點計?」
今次平少少,雖則都仲係好貴。假設喺政府醫院打(即係已經最平啦),化療TT-carboplatin通常唔洗錢,Herceptin要睇下申唔申請到資助(由全資助到全自費不等),Herceptin一年大概$300000,Pertuzumab要用$189000($27000×7)。
其他情況
「我唔係以上兩個情況,咁又用唔用得雙標靶呢?」
暫時我地仲等緊研究數據,先敢講Pertuzumab係其他情況的定位。例如手術後化療加標靶,用雙標靶係咪好過單標靶呢?雖然暫時係唔知,不過觀乎以上兩個情況咁好反應,假以時日,Pertuzumab被更廣泛採用,我唔會覺得奇怪。
2017年12月更新:美國食品藥物管理局(FDA)已經批出雙標靶藥物在高危復發病人術後輔助治療的應用。
HER2型乳癌的春天
多咗呢隻Pertuzumab,有錢的HER2型乳癌病友真正迎來治療的春天。係,冇睇錯,係有錢人先係春天。冇錢的病友,唔好灰心,加油呀,加油搵錢呀~
既然講開錢,下一篇幫你計吓數,成個化療標靶療程有咩地方要用錢/用幾多,仲會教埋你點申請傷殘津貼。
密切留意「乳癌化療費用 - 要用幾多錢?貴唔貴?」
相關醫學專欄:治療新突破 兇惡乳癌可望根治
好貴!現在明白點解人地話,可以死都吾可以病!
但希望有一天,政府醫院都可免費或支助提供便可幫到更多病人了!
謝謝,維園阿伯的資訊!
謝謝醫生,以下是幫病友問的:是否跟公立醫院醫生開口說,想自費試雙標靶治療就可以呢?
錢只係其中一個障礙,核心問題係究竟需唔需要,暫時唔係個個HER2型乳癌都需要雙標靶,不過開口問問醫生自己需唔需要亦冇壞。
醫生,有冇資料講病例係 pCR 打第幾針會出現?
pCR係指pathological complete response,有得病理樣本(pathology specimen)即係定義上要做手術後先知,冇話打第幾針就會出現。
明白,我以為係講緊個腫瘤會縮到唔見左就係pCR。。。
好多謝blog主寫左咁多野比我地睇,比大家機會多D去了解呢個病,起受左打擊之後,都可以搵到多D資料,知道有咩選擇。。。
家人要做術前化療加雙標靶,尋日去左公立醫院,醫生比左個數我地,share個精準D既數比大家預定budget下。。。 (Updated Mid-Aug 2016)
Herceptin- 打一年$310,000
Pertuzumab- 打六針$220,000
即係我地呢一年淨係標靶藥要比$530,000。不過有得打總好過冇得打啦,命仔緊要呀。。。。
你好,我有位朋友在幾年前得到早期乳癌,已經完成化療。最近半年,她復發,轉移到肺部和肝臟有一點。現在正服用雙標靶幾個月,實際情況上還有多久時間?因為費用是每月花幾萬。網上都寫上很多正面的奇蹟活到十年八年什至更長。想知道真實情況通常是怎樣?
冇得估,見步行步。
我乳癌her2第二期,做了3次TTCH,瘤缩了2/3,现在瘤1cm左右,私家医生(乳腺外科)话问肿瘤科值不值得双标靶,见了公立肿瘤科,好似话化疗做了一半,双标靶唔汤唔水,想请问值不值得双标靶
如果你想盡量手術前腫瘤縮細到冇(pathological complete response),就應該加雙標靶。
可是如果现在开始双标靶只打3针,会唔会五效果?还有抗药性?肿瘤缩细到没有也是需要做手术,那缩细到没有的好处是什么?谢谢
是術前打三針。
術前縮到冇,當然有好處,縮到冇的病人存活率係好過縮唔到冇的病人。
術前打三針並唔會話有抗藥性呢回事,佢唔係抗生素。
當然打6針好過打3針,只不過你已經開始咗,你只可以退而求其次揀打3針。咁樣有幾大著數,冇人講得實,不過呢個係你唯一機會打雙標靶,因為暫時雙標靶只係獲授權在術前化療/擴散時用,術後化療用雙標靶係冇牌的(只係研究先會咁用)。
如果用你的邏輯,唔係追求pCR,點都要做手術,咁點解要打多3針單標靶,唔而家就直接做手術?pCR係我地所追求的其中一樣野。
醫生你好! 媽媽在4年前已做手術切除, 上年復發擴散至肺部, 現已打了3針Herceptin , 但癌指數沒有下跌, 現情況可否打Pertuzumab? 復復率會否好點? 感謝回覆!
可以打,理應可以控制得好D。
那只打基本7針($的問題)然後再長期打herceptin , 會否沒多成效?
暫時冇人知。
你好,媽媽最近乳癌復發,政府醫院給出文中所講雙標靶既方案,但說目前沒有資助,唔知係醫生唔清楚還是真係冇,希望你地可提供我一些資料,感激萬分!
你可以比張poster佢睇就一清二楚。不過復發唔等如擴散,要搞清楚資格。
Hi Breast HK, my mother diagnosed with stage 2 HER2 positive breast cancer and already finished 4 rounds of chemo with Taxotere and Cytoxan and Herceptin. She removed her right breast and no lymph node involvement. Her pet scan didn’t show any cancer spread before she started chemo. However, when she had her 4th round of chemo two weeks ago, she started urinated blood, the first time, lots of blood came out when she urinated. A few days later a little blood came out again, yesterday she also urinated a little blood. I wonder if this is a side effect of chemo or it’s recurrence ??? She won’t go back to her doctor for Herceptin until two weeks later and she’s very worried now. I really hope it’s not a sign of cancer coming back
最有可能係化療副作用,cyclophosphamide well known 會引致出血性膀胱炎(hemorrhagic cystitis)。
Thanks for your reply. Her problem with urinated blood stopped after a few days but this whole week, she’s been having rectal bleeding ( fresh blood dripping down ) everytime she use the toilet. She’s waiting for colon scope now but very very worried that her breast cancer spread to her colon. Does it sounds like side effect of her chemo ( she just finished 4x chemo on Taxotere and Cytoxan and Herceptin on her stage 2 HER2 positive ) or it sounds more like there’s cancer cells in her colon ??
乳癌唔會擴散去腸。
Hi Breast HK, my mother had HER2+ stage 2A cancer a year ago ( finished surgery and chemo ) and she’s about to finish 17 rounds of Herceptin next month. However, recently she feels pain throughout her body such as neck, back, leg, ect. Her calcium level is only 19 but her oncologist said it should be 35 so he gave her higher level of calcium. She’s going for a bone scan next week but I’m afraid it’s bone metastasis. Does her symptoms sounds like it spread to the bone ??? Do patients have pain all over their bodies if it’s bone cancer ?? Thanks
唔好亂咁估,照咗Bone scan 就一清二楚。
你好呀! 多謝你一直以來用淺白而明既方式介紹咁多資訊比我地! 依家我有一個難題呀, 唔知你可唔可以解答到我, 我8 月係私家做咗两边全切加重建手術, 我係HER2型 stage2B, 私家醫生叫我食全餐加雙標靶, 因為私家太貴, 我去咗政府, 政府建議打TTCH唔打P, 我問過我可以自費打P, 但醫生話我個case 未有數據support到真係有用, 叫我唔好, 但我內心好掙扎因為我得35歲, 仲有個小朋友幾歲, 我想打到就打埋佢因為一次過, 但政府醫生又話唔好, 我不是富有型, 但都可以辛苦D afford 到果個價, 只係政府講到冇用咁我好hesitate. 希望你幫到我分析下. 謝謝你.
Pertuzumab喺手術後輔助方色的定位未確立,唔知有冇用(雖然估有用),所以FDA未批咁樣用的,所以現階段會建議跟返政府TTCH的建議。
我是HER2 4期,做完化療丶手術和電療,現在接受雙標靶Pertuzumab + Herceptin治療,我有以下的問題:
1. 請問飲食有什麼要注意?高氧化食療會不會影響雙標靶的藥效(化療期間藥劑師告訴我維他命亦只可以服用小童一半的劑量)?
2. 有沒有那一種生果會影響標靶藥物的效用?
3. 如果想服用中藥調理身體,會不會令標靶藥物效用減低?
謝謝。
1)冇飲食野要注意。我唔信咩高氧化食療。
2)冇。
3)唔會。
現在一直使用herceptin,最近加了一個療程的lapatinb,現準備申請perjeta資助,加自費lapatinb口服標靶,lapatinb和perjeta可否作雙標靶治療?因資助基構可能只批一種標靶。謝謝。
暫時呢一刻(2018年3月),臨床應用上冇perjeta+lapatinib呢個組合,第時係咪研究/發展方向冇人知。
想問下知唔知 t-dm1 幾$$?
$21500/100mg。要計重量去用藥的,一般體型你預三四萬一個週期。
醫生你好! 媽媽在4年前已做手術切除, 上年10月發現復發擴散至骨(主要)淋巴肝, 打了6針Taxol +雙標靶,癌指數一直下跌直至第5,6 針又升翻, PET scan 顯示原有腫瘤大部分消失,但骨出現了新病灶,現再打Vinorelbine+雙標靶。我擔心是否herceptin (還是taxol?)有抗藥性?如是,是否只能轉TDM-1? 感謝回覆!
如果雙標靶唔得,下一步就係TDM1。
謝謝你。可否再問腳重/無力(但不是日日如此,有時好些)會否是腦擴散症狀?是打了vinerolbine 才出現,不知是不是副作用。之前問了醫生須否再照腦MRI(發現時腦沒擴散),他說沒徵狀暫不用照,但我還是擔心因頸骨有新病灶⋯沒有其他徵狀如頭痛或不平衡等⋯非常感謝您。
呢D要臨床仔細評估先知,唔可能網上答到你。
醫生你好,剛剛打完兩針vinorelbine+雙標靶,驗完癌指數又再上升(由未打vinorelbine 的70到上升到80 ) , 醫生說再看兩針後情況如何再決定要不要轉TDM1。請問怎樣才知雙標靶是否已失效(例如指數升很多?)?因我明白TDM1是第二線,且有其他副作用,一直打下去會很辛苦(原希望完成法療後可只靠雙標靶),謝謝醫生
去到呢個階段,唔可能三言兩語去斷定雙標靶係咪失效,實際要問返自己醫生。
醫生你好,剛驗完癌指數又上升,醫生說有機會已變HER2 negative,但不能抽針確定因新病灶在骨中,請問如真係變左,化療組合是否應選第二或第三代才夠力?因我媽媽年紀不輕,之前打taxol都好辛苦。多謝醫生。
事情發展至此,已經唔可以憑你三言兩語去比意見,建議同自己醫生傾,請諒。
醫生你好,乳癌三期兩邊淋巴轉移(三陽性),2014年完成左邊全乳切除,2015年打herceptin期間再在原位復發,故2015年9月做切除腫物手術,之後用口服化療5次,完成后再用herceptin+tyker治療,治療1年半因經濟原來停藥到9月2017年。不幸2017年12月已做pet Scan,左胸壁有幾粒,左胸亦再第二次原本位置復發,現在a醫生叫我继續herceptin+tyker,b醫生要我打停經針之後用AI+TDM1方向,因我38age,還要工作,照顧小孩,我應該如何好,多謝你!
如果兩邊淋巴都有擴散就唔係第三期,係第四期。
我支持B醫生方案,如果荷爾蒙受體仲係冇變的話,對停經針+AI反應可能好好的,TDM-1就針對HER2。另一樣野可以考慮的,就係CDK4/6 inhibitor (palbociclib/ ribociclib),第四期荷爾蒙受體陽性乳癌加埋AI當第一線用。
Tykerb角色其實已經退居好後線,仲要加上已經用過年半,A醫生方案都唔預有好反應。
馬醫生你好,請問一下,42歲,ER+PR+Her2+, 最大 invasive tumour size 6mm x 6mm x 5mm 做切片,tumour grade 2, Ki67: 11%。剩下兩粒分別2mm 同3mm沒做切片。醫生建議打TTCH x 4 + herceptin 一年+ 電療20次+荷爾蒙藥五年。看到多數Her2都打六針化療,請問我個Case 四針可以嗎?謝謝!
T1b如果淋巴冇事,TTCx4 + herceptin 夠了,不用6針。
您好,請問下如果是手術後的化療,P藥需要用多久? 有的醫生話要6針,有的要18針。
如果你所指的P藥係pertuzumab,就打18針。
想多問一句,1,為什麼公立醫院不建議我打p,即使我願意自費,公立醫生說p對我的情況可以說benefit非常小。我是32歲,腫瘤1.5cm,一顆淋巴陽性。
2,現在皮下注射的赫賽汀和靜脈注射的赫賽汀效果上有區別嗎?
非常感謝?
1)三年沒有復發的存活率只差0.9%,用pertuzumab只提升由93.2%去到94.1%,所以公立醫生說benefit小。
2)理論上冇分別。
我太太早前三期Her2+ , 3期。已用左單標加化療。
2017 年11月完成整個療程,今天發現復發,擴散到肺,現時還適合用雙標治療嗎?
麻煩晒,待覆
合適。
醫生你好,我係 ER-ve ,PR -ve, her 2 +ve
請問,如果打 Docetaxel + Carbonplatin (6針)+標靶,係咪最好既化療組合? 或者其組合效果都係差不多呢?
請醫生給點意見,謝謝 ^^
係咪最好唔敢講,只可以話係最大路最常見的組合。
謝謝醫生(∩▽∩)
醫生 我媽系Her2 第三期有10粒淋巴受染,系咪用雙標會好啲? 如果完全冇資助 而家價錢大概會係幾多?
雙標靶好少少。一年雙標靶淨藥費都80幾萬。
其實同單標差別係咪唔算好大,同埋副作用會唔會比單標更勁?我媽65了,我怕佢頂唔順
手術後雙標靶成效差別唔算好大,副作用亦都差不多。
同埋我媽已經做左手術切曬成個左邊乳房,咁樣仲有冇得雙標?
手術幅度同標靶冇關係。
醫生,咁我系咪可以理解為,其實手術之後單雙差別唔系好大,雙標其實只系比多啲錢,但同單標效果差唔多?
分別唔係好大,但係係有分別,只係性價比唔高。
咁如果本身經濟條件就唔夠做曬成個雙標療程,系咪真接做單標會好過做幾次雙,然後又轉返單?
唔夠錢就直接單標靶算了。
明白,謝謝醫生
醫生,想問下第三期先做手術再化療標鈀系咪比較蝕底,系咪咁樣就唔知隻藥夾唔夾同有冇效?
唔可以一概而論,好多因素影響决定。要喺身體試夾唔夾,只有術前化療/標靶一途。
我係三陽三期,正接受雙標雙化的手術前治療,2月20打第六針,已定3月21手術,但係依家醫生叫我3月13開始打單標靶,想問單標唔係手術後打咪?還有手術前幾日打對手術係唔係沒咁好,好困惑!
完咗雙標靶6針就緊接單標靶,唔影響手術所以唔洗就。
好多謝你,係這裡學到好多野,感恩!
您好 breast hk!今天看到這個專欄,見識多咗好多谢你我係Her2十型乳癌第三期術前化療在一月中完成手術全切左乳房前哨淋巴結切粒沒有擴敬但醫生建議電療25次好似治療沒完沒了哦正在打緊herceptin在這樣的情況下電与不電療的分別大嗎?謝謝你!
第三期即係最開初係T4或淋巴有擴散,要電療的。
Breast HK,非常感謝你的回覆!可否再幫我睇吓手術後的Comment:DCIS is identified within a tumor bed measuring 16x14mm with an overall cellularity of 1%. There is no evidence of invasive carcinoma or lymph node metastasis . This corresponds to a Complete Response (AJCC 8th edition) or a Residual Cancer Burden (MD Anderson) Class PCR,RCB score o Microcalcufication: present in DCIS and in non-neoplasticism tissue Trcatmcnt Effect: Breast; Probablc or definite response to presurgical therapy in the invasive carcinoma. Lymph nodes:No lymph node metastas,Fibrous scaring ,possibly related to prior lymph node metastasis with pathological complete response. DCIS margins:Uninvolved by DCIS)DCIS present in specimen)Distance of DCIS from Closest margin (mm);<1. Closest Margin ;posterior. Regional lymph nodes Uninvolved by tumor cells Number of lymph nodes Examined :3. Number of sentinel nodes Examined:3. TNM Descriptors :y(post-treatment). Primary tumor (invasive carcinoma)(Pi)Piis (DCIS):Ductal carcinoma in situ Regional lymph node modifier (SN):only sentinel nodes evaluated.Regional lymph node Category (pN$:pN0:No regional lymph node metastasis identified or TTCs only 我係术前化療6針之前ultrasound tumour 是2.9×3.1x2cm. MRI 是3X2.1×3.4cm Er1^/PR-/H2+ 請問breast hk 看上面的結果我體內的cancer是否清除。 我今天也去咗做cy模擬謝謝你期待你的回覆!謝謝……….
唔可以單靠你打的文字報告去評估,斷症係成個人去睇。
Breast hk!很感謝你的回覆!因為很㥬惶,我係唔十分明白當中的英文內容.自那天看了你的專欄後很喜歡你的意見和建議因此寫多咗唔好意思真誠的謝謝你….
好多謝你Breast HK,因為太多治療感到很㥬惶,唔好意思寫咗太多,其實我都唔明英文寫的內容,當手術醫生拿住這報告話我聽要電療我的心情係非常非常不好過的…..也許這几天看多咗你嗰專欄知多D希望有D.真心謝謝你願神賜福大家!
想請問如吃了Kisqali (Ribociclib) , 一年後再轉吃Ibrance 可不可以?因資助問題
那隻副作用較大?我驚承受不到,通常太約幾久會抗藥,好苦惱!
醫生話耍加Fulvastrant, 有無其這類型唔需耍錢?謝謝你
寳貴時間!
冇話唔可以,方向醫生都係摸索階段。
副作用差不多,Ribociclib 多少少。
Fulvastrant要自費的。
版主你好,承接上年4月問你雙標靶既問題,我媽上年4月獲得資助去打雙標靶了,可惜到今日,醫生話我媽轉差,雙標靶既資助額未用完已經想唔再資助,因為個方案轉左(其實都係打雙標靶,只係加返已停打既化療藥繼續},而家話藥物要全部自費,但你資料話連續打好耐之後就會一直free,點解會咁唔同呢?其實唔係差左更加要繼續用藥咩?而家自費差不多5萬一次,講真出到錢又點會去申請資助,呢刻真係完全唔知仲可以點做,希望你可以俾D意見,感激!
要打兩年36週期過外加病情穩定先免費,媽媽惡化又未夠兩年唔合資格。
咁想請教下,連雙標靶都控制唔到情況,係咪表示無藥可用?
下一線係TDM1。
但之前係用過TDM1先轉去用雙標靶+紫杉醇,唔係已經有抗藥性嗎?
如果已經用過TDM1,再下線就Xeloda + Lapatinib 。
醫生您好,
本人太太今年50歲,已完成全乳切除手術。腫瘤size 2.1cm, grade 3, ER 60% positive, PR 50% positive, HER2 3+ , Ki-67:40%, 前哨淋巴無事。想問問,私家醫生(腫瘤科)建議打6針TCH (TC+H係一齊打), QE醫院的醫生建議打4針TCH, 但TC同H分期打(先完成TC才打H)。我而家唔知點好,兩個醫生唔同講法,請您可以幫忙分析一下嗎!感謝
兩個方案也可行。
醫生你好,本人太太是乳癌三期T1N2M0 淋巴擴散了8粒,手術後已安排轉到公立醫院做化療和標靶,請問現在在公立醫院買Pertuzumab是否仍然送Herceptin藥呢?因為想做TTCHP 的。
第四期加特定條件先送。第三期唔合資格。
明白,另外腫瘤科醫生建議TTCHP的P是吊18針,但我見你有介紹過用在3期上TTCHP的P是吊6針的。
1.請問6針跟18針成效上有差別嗎?
2.如有的話差別大嗎?
3.依你之見我太太應該用6針還是18針比較適合呢?
補充多些資料
T1N2M0
Her2 positive
ER positive
PR positive
Grade 3
KI67 60%
感謝你的寶貴意見
手術前打雙標靶個P就6針,手術後先打雙標個P就18針。
醫生您好,我媽媽是Her2型,ER PR陰性,3級,2A期T2N0M0, Ki-67:40%。已經左乳全切,且實行ACTH方案,赫賽汀還剩4針。沒有打Pertuzumab針,請問現在還可以補打P針嗎?也是打12針嗎?是否有必要呢?
不好意思還有一個問題,請問如果不打P針,是否可以考慮H針后,使用Neratinib來降低復發轉移風險呢?
先謝謝醫生!
去到呢個位,沒有必要補打Pertuzumab。
Neratinib 可以考慮,不過成效並不是太明顯。
謝謝醫生回復。想請您解釋一下為何這個藥成效不太明顯可以嗎?我查到Neratinib是FDA推薦的早期乳腺癌輔助強化用藥,不過也看到報道說針對ER+Her2+++的人群會更適宜,不知為何這個藥很少有人使用。在香港問過價格好貴一隻。
最后還想問一下醫生,請問現在補打Pertuzumab是沒有效果了嗎?好擔心不用這個新藥之後會容易轉移復發,不知現在這種情況打完Herceptin之後應該怎麼後續治療
不好意思醫生,又問了這麼多,先再次感謝!
支持用Neratinib的證據主要來自一個叫ExteNET的研究。https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29146401/
我地知道完成Herceptin 後,食1年neratinib可增加5年無復發率(5-year invasive disease free survival),由87.7%增加到90.2%,當中幫助尤以ER+的病人比ER-的病人明顯,代價就係痾到飛起。至於整體存活率(overall survival)有冇幫助,我地仲等緊D數據出爐,暫時冇結論。
最夾嗰班先賺得2.5% 5年無復發率,你媽咪係ER-,淋巴又冇擴散,即係會賺少過2.5%,此乃我話效果唔明顯。值唔值得用有好大商榷。
仲有4針就完成herceptin,冇研究支持呢個時候加pertuzumab有用,所以係唔建議。
謝謝醫生的詳細解答!實在是非常感謝!
你好醫生
我媽媽係Her2型
已經做完手術切除同完成化療加電療
亦都打左7針Herceptin
但係去到第8針,醫生發現心臟承受唔住決定停藥
請問之後有咩可以做?
咁樣停藥會唔會令復發機會大左?
果7針係咪變左冇用?
身體頂唔順冇咩可以做。
可能會大咗。
果7針都係有用。
醫生你好,媽媽乳癌四期,擴晒到骨,肝,淋巴,打了39針雙標靶,本來有擴晒的位置都沒有復發,唯獨腸膜的幾點結節大了,有一粒大左一倍(約4cm), 想問問這個情況該繼續雙標靶,觀察多三個月再照pet scan, 還是轉kadcyla?
情況不是可以一下說清,要同主診醫生商量。
感謝醫生回覆,無論如何謝謝馬醫生兩年前,給了我媽媽意見,試用雙標靶,我們賺了整整兩年無惡化期!
Pertuzumab 已不是第一線打雙標靶, 還有其它經濟資助嗎?
以我所知今日(2020年4月)都仲未有,如果你/其他病友知道有新update,麻煩通知大家。
我之前用雙鏢靶三年,今年二月轉T-DM1,想問如果再有抗藥性,應該轉什麼藥,另外,血小板低有什麼可以幫助?血小板數量幾多才不可以打T-DM1 ?謝謝🙏🏻
去到第三線嘅治療,我地會考慮口服標靶藥加口服化療藥(neratinib 或lapatinib加capecitabine),或者重用Herceptin加其他化療藥。Neratinib 和lapatinib 兩者之中,最新嘅研究顯示 neratinib 效果會較好。
血小板低一般係會自行回復嘅,坊間就話花生衣有幫助。血小板一般需要100或以上先可以繼續抗癌治療。
想請問醫生,太太兩年半前私家做曬手術,電療,化療,herceptin治療,現時復發轉移咗去腰椎位置,要轉用雙標靶,依家返政府唔知可唔可以申請到資助
真係要申請過先知。
你好醫生, 2星期前媽咪接受左雙標+化療,後日落第2次雙標+化療,但睇返藥單上次係
TRASTUZUMAB INJECTION 440MG + TRASTUZUMAB INJECTION 150MG + PERTUZUMAB INFUSION 30MG/ML 14ML (2 VIAL)
今次黎緊既藥單只有
TRASTUZUMAB INJECTION 440MG + PERTUZUMAB INFUSION 30MG/ML 14ML (1VIAL)
我睇到你上面話第1次要打2針既PERTUZUMAB
但係點解第2次打小左TRASTUZUMAB INJECTION 150MG,請問正常嗎,因為主診醫生放假,搵左其他醫生跟進同安排藥,怕佢簽小左藥單比我地
唔該醫生
正常。Herceptin 第一針都有loading dose,打8mg/kg,之後第二針打後就打6mg/kg。如果媽咪重大概73.8kg就啱數。
请问医生术前用双标靶,术后如果用单标靶的话效果会不会比还是继续用双标靶差
理論上理應差一D,不過實際上冇數據。
請問醫生,媽媽3月尾發現胸有個硬塊,照3D果陣發現淋巴仲有一粒,已確診係2期並於4月16日已全乳切,淋巴果粒係1期.
報告出左係ER+,PR+,Ki-67 30%,HER2(c-erbB-2) Equivocal score2
打算轉介去QE後續治療,想問下因為HER2係Equivocal,係咪即係要再做一次FISH ?
係,要做FISH或者SISH。
你好醫生, 媽咪之前已經打左術前6針雙標靶+化療,做左手術切出黎既淋巴23粒有12粒感染,而乳房做左局部切除(由原本3.x cm 縮到 1.x cm),今日見腫瘤科醫生話要轉TDM1(14針),請問咁樣情況係咪好差先會轉?咁樣係代表雙標對媽咪既腫瘤反應不理想?媽咪今日聽完醫生講,覺得自己情況好差好唔理想,搞到情緒有D唔好,感謝醫生
打完雙標靶都仲有12粒淋巴感染,反應唔理想,所以會考慮用另一款藥TDM1。
睇完術後報告,醫生話即刻食荷爾蒙藥,安排CT掃描,電療及新標靶。
1. 3個步驟(電療+TDM1+荷爾蒙藥)同時進行既情況常見嗎?
2. 另外想問下醫生有問我哋做Pet scan定CT,但我聽唔明差d咩,因為媽媽幾個月前做過1次Pet scan,怕傷身想做CT,做CT對比做Pet scan出黎既報告會對做電療/跟進成效相差遠嗎?同埋CT排期2個幾月,會太耐嗎?要醫生轉介照CT又應該照邊一種,如果係Pet scan又應唔應該要打顯影劑個種?
感謝醫生,你回覆既都會一次過掃清心入面答案,當日見個位政府醫生同我哋講話完成標靶先電療,又話胸骨有一串串(原來指有淋巴)嚇到我地以為走左去胸骨,後來追問先確認電療同標靶同步進行
1)正常。
2)PET-CT睇活躍度同睇結構,CT只睇結構,所以PET會準D。成效相差遠唔遠視乎第一次PET見到D咩,不過要對比要比較,最好蘋果對蘋果,橙對橙,決定用一種檢查之後,就主要用嗰種檢查去比對,唔好轉黎轉去,咁樣好難比對。CT排2個幾月唔算耐。CT就要顯影劑,PET-CT就唔洗顯影劑。
醫生,媽咪,71歲,四期,有食出皮膚。剛在政府完成18針紫杉醇 (因為身體不太壯健,醫生每枝紫杉醇减份量,應該比一般多打了幾針) 加6針herceptin. 醫生話由於四期,不會做手術。現開始食Letrozole,再繼續Herceptin.
1. 請問為什麼沒有聽醫生講可以雙標靶?
2. 請問可以向政府要求嗎?效用如何?
3. Herceptin 資助18針後會怎樣發展?可以要求繼續資助的嗎?
謝謝你。
1)要問返政府醫生。
2)可以要求。效果比單標靶好。
3)如果心臟頂得順,病情又冇惡化,一直繼續打落去。要再次審批資助。
Hi Dr Ma,
I’m 43 years old and diagnosed with Breast Cancer – had mastectomy and all lymph nodes removed. Below is the details:
– Left Breast multifocal carcinoma + DCIS + sentinel node metastasis
– Pathologic stage: 11 multi focal invasive carcinomas of no special-type. Measure <1mm to 5mm each in largest dimension.
– CT shows no distant metastasis.
– IHC: HER2 equivocal 2+, FISH positive
– ER positive, PR negative
– Ki67 index: 32.5%
Oncologist doctor is recommending the below treatment:
Chemo: Docetaxel + Carboplatin ( x4) + Herceptin (x17)
Hormon: Tamoxifen (5-10 years)
Would like to ask for your advice:
1. Is the chemo medicine TTCH per your article? If yes, 4 cycle is standard ok right?
2. Doctor recommend Herceptin though largest cancer size is 5mm, he said multifocal is not good too.
Appreciate your website and article a lot, helps me so much! Thank You!
The drugs are TTCH, but standard regime is 6 cycles (not 4).
My wife, 51 years old. Diagnosis: right breast 12mm grade 2 invasive duct talk carcinoma with lobular pattern ER 8 out of 8, auxiliary lymph node positive. Grade 2 growth. the biopsy read very limited lymph node spread, then on Jan 10 had a follow up MRI scan for Lymph node clarity. The result could see a 14mm lesion in the right breast, the rest of the right breast and left breast was normal, but not see and cancerous lymph nodes in the armpit. However because the HER2 result was positive, wanted to change the treatment plan from surgery first to chemotherapy with anti-HER2 positive therapy first then surgery.
So my questions are:
1. Is the change of treatment plan necessary and will benefit the patient??
2. Does she require this treatment or not? (As doctor on Jan 10 initially said only required surgery with hormone medication)
The patient is required to make a treatment decision on Monday so your urgent feedback would be most appreciated. Thank you very much!
1)Neoadjuvant chemotherapy with antiHER2 therapy is a good option for her.
2) She will require chemotherapy and antiHER2 therapy anyway, no matter she does surgery first or chemotherapy first.
Hi 馬醫生,想了解吓有關Her2+ 術前化療加雙標靶對日後生育會唔會好大影響。
8月頭開始化療,婦科醫生建議先做ivf,因為年齡未到40及剛剛新婚,不過ivf成功率唔高,而且乳科醫生建議提早化療,無謂浪費時間。
請問應否向腫瘤科醫生提出先用停經針,再等待化療後月經會否回復正常?
謝謝您。
化療可以導致不育,另一方面,亦都有化療後成功懷孕個案。
唔好浪費時間做IVF,盡快醫返好,保護到自己先有懷孕基礎。
停經針係好選擇,可以保護卵巢,增加懷孕機會。
Thank you for your reply and have only just read it on the system now.
My wife back in June completed 6 sessions of TCarboPH chemotherapy. A Sentinel node biopsy surgery was then carried out in July.The pathology report then stated:
Tumour status
Partial response to therapy- Tumour dimension was 14mm. Current tumour dimension – tumour involves slices 2 to 5, 4 slices i.e 5 x 4 = 20mm. So the present dimension is greater than the estimated previous dimension. However, there is fibrosis of the stroma in keeping with partial response to therapy.
Lymph node status
Total number of Lymph nodes – 3. Metastatic disease present in 1 out of 3 lymph node (s) with evidence of partial response identified in the same lymph node which had the metastasis. There is extranodal tumour seen and no biopsy track is seen within the lymph node. No evidence of response in the other lymph nodes. (1/3).
– Visible invasive tumour diameter on excision = involves 4 consecutive slices i.e 20mm in maximum dimension
– Margin (s) less than 10mm from visible invasive (Superior less than 1mm), Anterior 1.2mm), (Posterior less than 1mm), (Medial 5mm), (Lateral greater than 10mm), (Inferior 8mm). Low grade insitu ductal carcinoma within the areas of invasive. Vascular invasion not present.
– Malignant calcification not present.
– Background breast tissue – fibroadenomas/fibro adenomatoid change.
– TNM stage (on post-treatment findings) (y) pT1c, (y) pN1,
– Representative tumour block – A4
A second surgery was then required to gain a clear margin of healthy tissue and the Surgery Consultant then advised no further chemo was needed, however the oncologists have now devised a plan for the following treatment:
i) Trastuzumab emtansine (replacing the current Herceptin injection)
ii) Radiotherapy to the breast (for 5 or 15 sessions)
iii) Tamoxifen (anti-estrogen tablet for 10 years)
So the questions I would like to ask are:
1. Based on the above result information and in your opinion, how would you observe her current life situation with her cancer status?
2. Now with chemotherapy being conducted first and only partially effective, could this have given the cancer more opportunity to have spread?
3. What ways/methods are there to know traces of cancer are clear from the body?
4. In your view, do you think this treatment plan is most suitable for her situation or is over treatment? (as since last chemo has suffered a lot of side effects until now) Any other advice?
Thank you.
1. First of all, you mentioned one out of three lymph nodes was involved. Your wife should receive formal axillary dissection.
2. Could be. But current (neoadjuvant) approach is the best.
3. Time will tell.
4. Oncologist’s plan makes sense and is appropriate (not over treatment), although it could be better. In Hong Kong, after Trastuzumab-emtansine, she should consider 1 year neratinib. For radiotherapy, she should go for 15 fractions plus 5 fractions local boost (could incorporate it into the 15 fractions called simultaneous integrated boost if she uses IMRT technique). For hormonal therapy, she should consider ovarian suppression and aromatase inhibitor.
Thank you very much for your professional advice and I will further discuss details with the Consultants next week. She would like to respond by asking:
1. In her report; “TNM stage (on post-treatment findings) (y) pT1c, (y) pN1,” Is this an early stage of cancer? And what is the meaning of “Representative tumour block – A4”?
2. Now chemo has been conducted first and only been partially effective, has the delay caused her cancer to further develop with growth from 14mm to 20mm at the time of surgery? OR her cancer kind is more resistant to treatments?
3. Is the pathology report substantial enough? or there is information that is still required that has not been provided yet to aid her upcoming treatments better?
4. At her current stage, what medical methods i.e. MRI scan, bone scan, blood tests etc could be conducted to ensure the body is clear from the spread of cancer?
5. Currently she needs to make a decision to either continue with the Herceptin injection OR change to Trastuzumab emtansine- Which would you advise to be the best in terms of benefits, risks and side-effects? (As midway through her TCarboPH chemotherapy, side-effects of her nerve ends have not totally recovered yet and still having ongoing bone and muscle aches)
Should any body checks be required to be sure of safety, before commencing the new chemotherapy?
From her husbands perspective (mine) since her last Chemo treatment, after contracting covid in hospital after her 2nd chemo and felt the tumour was not having any effect with the treatment. She wanted to change to surgery, but her Consultant advised to complete the chemo and as the MRI scan halfway showed the tumor to be shrinking from 14mm to 8mm with no trace of Lymph node festation. Now after the surgery, the pathology report suggests the findings were worse than expected. This has caused her to be quite discouraged and losing confidence with what to do next. Should I still be encouraging her to continue to the next stage of chemotherapy? It’s a pressuring time for us!
We feel very lucky to have this opportunity to receive your help here! Thank you.
1)It is not an early stage. The description means where does the pathologist look at the tumor.
2) The chemotherapy did not delay the treatment and did not make the situation worse. The assessment of so called 14mm may not be accurate. Indeed, one of the purpose of chemotherapy first is to test the tumor response in her body. Her pathology result showed that the current regime was not good enough to kill all the cancer cells, that’s why she needs to change to another drug. If she goes for surgery first, we won’t know such important piece of information, and will press on ineffective chemotherapy regime.
3) The report did not mention axillary dissection, I doubt three lymph nodes taken out is not enough.
4) PET scan
5) She should receive Trastuzumab emtansine.
Hi again, yesterday I just saw the Oncologist. She said Trastuzumab emtansine, tamoxifen and the radiotherapy would be given at the time. In addition the radiotherapy would be given for only 5 sessions for 30 mins each. Does that sound correct?
She also said that Neratinib would not be allowed as I have already had Phesgo injections with first chemotherapy. Would that apply in Hong Kong as well? Thank you
I guess you are managed in UK, 5 sessions radiotherapy is called ultra-short whole breast irradiation. Recent data from the FAST-Forward trial (which evaluated five fractions delivered in 1 week) demonstrated no difference in clinical outcomes at 5 years, with limited difference in toxicity, compared with hypofractionated 3-week schedule. As it has limited long term data so far, it is not widely practiced worldwide, most prevalent in UK only.
Phesgo is not a contraindication for neratinib.
Thank you very much again for your reply and insight.
1. The pathology report stated; “There is extranodal tumour seen and no biopsy track is seen within the lymph node”
Does this mean that the pre-surgery biopsied lymph node has not been found nor removed yet? Therefore, would it be necessary to have a full lymph node clearance or 5x sessions of radiotherapy should be enough for her treatment?
2. For the 3 treatments: Trastuzumab emtansine, Tamoxifen and radiotherapy. Is it advised to take the treatments separately or can be given at the same time?
1) It is difficult to ascertain just base on your reported statement. However, she should receive formal full axillary dissection if not yet done. Radiotherapy alone is not enough.
2) All three treatment can be given at the same time.
Thank you again for your reply. Today we went to see the Oncologists and was told from last weeks CT scan that some scared imaging could be seen within the spinal column. Now need to undergo an MRI scan for clarity. Was administered a HER2 injection and given some Tamoxifen to begin taking. Would like to ask during this waiting period what would you advise is the best treatment or steps to take to help?
Nothing, just be patient.
I appreciate your response. If it was confirmed to be secondary cancer, what treatment recommendation would then be the best going forward? Thank you.
Still TDM-1(Trastuzumab emtansine).
Thank you for your reply. So for the cancer on the bone, would need something extra? And the TDM1 session duration should be for 6 or 12? Thank you.
Bone metastasis should consider bone targeted agent eg zometa/denosumab.
The TDM-1 duration will depend on response.
Thank you for getting back to me. Is a phyllodes tumor the same as a lobular pattern type?
No, they are completely different things.
Thank you very much again. Today we just saw the Oncologist and was told when matching up the new MRI scan with the CT scan they think is likely to be cancer, but not sure if old or new and is microscopic (too small to be biopsied) now we are still waiting to find out exactly what it is.
1. Under this situation, should the TDM-1 replace the Phesgo? -as pre-surgery treatment appeared to show the cancer had treatment resistance. I am concerned the cancer cells will spread if waiting so long to commence suitable treatment. (radiotherapy still being held-off)
2. Could you provide any advice as to what could be the best course of treatment under these new developments?
1)Should go for TDM1.
2) Could consider radiotherapy to bone metastasis if only affect a few site (what we called oligometastasis).
請問打T-DM 1 會辛苦嗎?相比之前打TC 化療加雙標把。因手術後癌細胞未清,所以醫生要打14 次T-DM 1 加電療
唔辛苦。
我媽媽同你媽媽情況一樣,請問打T-DM1 辛苦🙏🏻
Thank you very much for your feedback once more! We really are appreciating your professional advice in our situation. So under our current circumstances; T-DM1 + radiotherapy to bone + tamoxifen is the best treatment? Also any bone targeted agent eg zometa/denosumab still would be necessary?
TDM1+radiotherapy to bone + bone targeted agent+ ovarian suppression + AI.
Thank you very much for getting back and I will provide your advice to my consultant when I meet them next week. Since knowing the bone issue, they’ve stopped the step towards T-DM1 and just keeping Phesgo and Tamoxifen only until they can establish the bone issue is an old or new one. They will discuss this feedback in their next meeting and your advise will be very useful going into that meeting. I’ve only stopped my periods in February since chemo and begun the tamoxifen in September, so now changing to AI would be best?
After ovarian suppression.
Thank you again for your feedback. Today just saw the oncologist who informed us after the bone specialist’s analysis was giving reasonable doubt the legions on the spin were not metastasis, but also could not confirm they were not cancerous. An MRI scan has been booked to see if any developments/changes after 3 months. So the treatment now prescribed is to be T-DM1, radiotherapy and tamoxifen. My questions are:
1. Under this somewhat ambiguous situation would this course of treatment now be most suitable or there is still risks involved? (because the consultant told me, if the cancer had in-fact moved, that T-DM1 would not be the most suitable course of treatment)
2. Are there any more methods or ways to detect and confirm any more spread of the disease, even though the legions are too small to biopsy?
3. Is it possible that the previous chemo or cancer could have caused any deformation of the rib cage as she has had ongoing aches and pains over the past few months? And if untreated, are there any risks or it will self-recover?
1)Most suitable
2)No
3)Possible. Time will tell.
One more thing, the bone targeting agent can still be a benefit to be given? (even if no spread of cancer) Thank you.
https://www.breasthk.com/zometa-denosumab/
我媽媽72歲, 乳癌復發擴散到頸骨,盆骨 ,脊骨都有少少, 因為佢係Her2, 醫生 建議用這幾種藥Paclitaxel-Carboplatin-PHESGO (Pertuzumab/Trastuzumab)化療加標靶,請問是否合適?
如果擴散咗,第一線通常就用Docetaxel-Pertuzumab-Trastuzumab,同你嗰個差唔多,不過你嗰個就打多咗化療carboplatin。
兩年前乳癌her2陽三期,左乳全切加化療單標靶電療,現在轉移到雙肺多發粒粒,請問接下來該怎樣治療最好呢?
好惊化療,聽說有放射治療可行嗎?
化療加雙標靶。
放射治療即係電療,左邊已經電過唔可以再電,冇電過嘅地方就要睇吓有冇需要/作用。
聽說有種射波刀,是電療嗎?
都係電療嘅一種,適唔適合用就要問返自己腫瘤科醫生。
好的,謝謝您的回復🙏
正在使用tdm1,已打第二針,請問醫生用tdm1後需要打升白針或抗生素,請問選擇那種好呢?
兩樣都唔需要。